beantwoord

Prepaid card blocked and no number anymore, How do I get my money back?

  • 21 augustus 2018
  • 18 reacties
  • 596 keer bekeken

Reputatie 1
Hello,

I had with you a prepaid card which I did not use for 9 months so I lost the number and I cannot get the number back. That is clear and so far I do not care about the number.
In this prepaid card I had more than 50 Euros.
My questions are:
1.- Where are these 50 Euros now?
2.- How do I get my 50 Euros back?

Thank you in advance
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Beste antwoord door Kees-Jan 22 augustus 2018, 16:26

After you bought the service, or the value for the service was transferred to you. It's a conversion of money to service.
So there is no money anymore, only service. This service had and "end of live"/"best before"/"overdue" date.

And you choose not to use that service although it was (and is) clearly for everyone that you should use it before that "end of live" date.

You didn't.

That's the game we're playing. By the rules.

Your money has gone. It isn't even your money. Ask Santa or Sinterklaas.

Telfort is not obliged to give you any money, but maybe you're lucky and get some "coulance" (leniency)...

good luck to you. I'm not going in repeat after this...

P.S. and thanx again for the compliments! I'm not a Telfort or KPN employee. Just here for helping other clients of Telfort.
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18 reacties

Reputatie 8
Badge +17
When the number is not used for that long period, Telfort assumes the card is not necessary anymore and invalidates the card. The number is returned to a pool for newly used numbers.
With the number you also lost your credit that was on the card.

So, I'm sorry to say, but the €50 are lost forever.
Reputatie 1
What do you mean the 50 Euros are lost forever? Money does not evaporate.
So far, you (Telfort) keep my 50 Euros, and those 50 Euros does not belong to you (they are not yours) because you did not provide any service for you to earn them or keep them.
So, could you please inform how are you going to return that money that does not belong to you?
Kees-Jan is not a Telfort employee, neither am I.
Telfort keeps the € 50,- as is explained here:

https://www.telfort.nl/persoonlijk/service/geldigheid-prepaid-beltegoed.htm

Translated:
code:
What happens if I do not call for 6 months, SMS, internet, buy a bundle or upgrade?


code:
Then you can no longer make calls, text and internet. You lose your phone number and call credit and can no longer use it. We can not request this number again for you.
Reputatie 8
Badge +17
The €50 credit you deposited on the number was assigned to you, the user of the number.
You decided to not use it. Now Telfort has waited a reasonable amount of time after the number was last used before they took it "of of service". That amount of time is declared on the Telfort website. Telfort monitors the regularly use of the prepaid numbers and if they notice "no use" the number is re used, thus reassigned to a pool for reissue the number.

Technically, Telfort is the "infrastructure" for transporting your €50 to your number. Again, you decided to not use the credit. For (more than) 9 months!
And now it's lost.

Sorry, but this is how it happens.
Reputatie 1
Thank you so much Kees-Jan and Nelly Jacoba,

So, Telfort "informs" the customer that they are going to block the customer's card because he is not using the mobile, and the way Telfort is doing this is by sending a SMS to the mobile that the customer is not using...????
How this works? I am quite sure that the customer is not informed.

And if telfort decides to block the number because the user does not make use of it, I am sure that all the customers wants to make use of the remaining money they have on the card, of which, telfort did not provide any service.

If Telfort sould be honest they would block the number, put it in a pool but return the money to the real owner "the customer".In which legal rule is Telfort supporting his right in keeping that money which does not belong to them?


Can someone explain this?
Can someone from Telfort also be able to explain this?
Reputatie 8
Badge +17
That are the conditions you agreed to when you bought the SIMcard.

https://www.telfort.nl/persoonlijk/service/geldigheid-prepaid-beltegoed.htm

Your credit is unlimited if you call, SMS, 3G or 4G at least once every 6 months, buy a bundle or top up.

You did that once. And then didn't use the number for over 6 months:

What happens if I do not call for 6 months, SMS, internet, buy a bundle or upgrade?
Then you can no longer make calls, text and internet. You lose your phone number and call credit and can no longer use it. We can not request this number again for you.A week before you lose your number, we will send you alerts by SMS and e-mail.


Not the answer you want to hear, but this is reality.

You decided yourself not to use the credit! So, take your loss and get over it...

Next time don't credit €50 to the number, just use small amounts.
Reputatie 1
Dear Kees-Jan,
Thank you for your reaction and points but:

First of all, I had that number for over 10 years, so I agreed on a contract from 10 years ago. The EU legislation changed on that time, if I remember ok around 2 years ago.
I did not sign or agree in a new contract, Telfort did not send me a new contract... So we did not agree anything at all.

Second point.
As you well mentioned:
"Technically, Telfort is the "infrastructure" for transporting your €50 to your number."
"You lose your phone number and call credit and can no longer use it. "
You lose your call credit. BUT the money is still there. Telfort is the infrastructure for transporting "changing" money into call credit. I do not want to get back the "call credit". I want to get back the money. Call credit and Money are two different things.

I am not asking how I get my call credit back, I am asking how I get my money back for which Telfort has not provide any service, so they are not entitle to keep that money that it does not belong to them.
Reputatie 8
Badge +17
It is very simple: there is no call credit nor money.

You lost it by not using the number regularly.

You didn't follow the conditions for using a prepaid card.

Clear enough?
Reputatie 1
It is very simple and clear enough that Telfort wants to keep a money that it does not belong to them and they have not earn it because they have NOT provide any service for them to earn it.
1.- I did not sign a new contract with new rules.
2.- Telfort did not sent to me the new contract for me to sign. So Telfort does not have my countersign in any document with these new rules you mention about. So these rules are not valid. (there was not agreement between the two parts)
3.- It is clear that Telfort "informs" customers on the numbers they do not use that they are going to block the number they are not using now for any reason. (this is really honest from Telfort, and clear that Telfort really wants to inform customers).
4.- No company can keep a money for which has not provided a service. This is an EU regulation which is on top of any privet contract or national contract or regulation. As The Netherlands is within the EU and Telfort is in The Netherlands, Telfort has to follow the EU regulation what ever their rules or privet contract says.

Kees-Jan
Thank you for your comments but you are only answering to some parts and not to all the questions I have made, which you avoid very well. My respect to you.
But if you are not an employee from them and you are not paid for this... If I were from Telfort I would hire you for sure!! you are too good for making this work for Telfort.
Of course, you are more than welcome to replay to my questions not answered yet.

And then I would like that someone from Telfort to reply to my already mentioned questions.
How do I get my money back for which Telfort has not provide any service?
Reputatie 8
Badge +19
.
And then I would like that someone from Telfort to reply to my already mentioned questions.

You will get the same answer(s) from Telfort...
Just wait until an employee hooks up.
Reputatie 8
Badge +17
1.- I did not sign a new contract with new rules.
2.- Telfort did not sent to me the new contract for me to sign. So Telfort does not have my countersign in any document with these new rules you mention about. So these rules are not valid. (there was not agreement between the two parts)

There are no "new rules", nor Telfort has to do with any "contract", because the service is pre-paid.
Pre-paid means "no strings attached"
This is how it is, how the rules are (at this moment) when using a pre-paid SIMcard.

3.- It is clear that Telfort "informs" customers on the numbers they do not use that they are going to block the number they are not using now for any reason. (this is really honest from Telfort, and clear that Telfort really wants to inform customers).
Oké, let's agree about that. Nothing wrong here. Telfort informs the customer. What's your point? Do I miss anything?

4.- No company can keep a money for which has not provided a service. This is an EU regulation which is on top of any privet contract or national contract or regulation. As The Netherlands is within the EU and Telfort is in The Netherlands, Telfort has to follow the EU regulation what ever their rules or privet contract says.
False, (for service). While I have a subscription for my mobile services (calls/data/SMS) for, lets say, €9 a month, and I use only for €3 during a particular month, I can't claim the "left over" €6, can I? I choose for not to use all of the worth of calls/data/SMS, leaving me with only €3 of service and €6 of "lost money".

True, when buying hardware, stuff and things, then, when a company doesn't deliver all the goods you paid for, they have to: 1. deliver the left goods or 2. give your money back.

Telfort informed you by sending an SMS text-message, and by no response Telfort "pulled the plug". For re-using the number that was occupied for nothing.

Again, there is no money to return. It is transferred/converted to a service, worth €50, that you choose not to use. For 9 months!! And now it's lost.

It's not a "bank-account" where you put and get money.


P.S. thanx for the compliments!
Reputatie 1
Enterprice, Let's see if at the end Telfort says something about this.

You are good Kees-Jan, They really should give you a contract.

There are new rules because before (2 years ago) you had to top up your valance once every 6 months and how you do not have to do that anymore. Now you have to call, SMS, etc. but you do not have to top up your valance. That is a new rule according to me.

Sending a SMS to a mobile that Telfort thinks that it is not used (that is why they send the SMS), that is not informing. It is like sending a letter to a house in which nobody leaves. Are you seriously informing or are you just sending a letter? to send a SMS is not informing.
Sending is not a synonym of informing.

According to you if you have a contract with someone to make a service for you (no hardware, stuff or things, just service) they can keep your money without doing this service? Example: I contract someone to walk my dog (pure service) and this person does not walk my dog. Can he keep my money for not walking the dog?. I contact with Telfort 50 euros for him to provide me SMS and calls for a value of 50 euros. Did telfort provide me this service? (50 euros in calls and SMS). No, then why is telfort keeping my money?

Is Telfort the only one between the two parties entitle to make changes and take decisions?
The same way Telfort did, I could say that I put a letter on the mail box for them informing them that from now on they will give me double the minutes and SMS for the same amount of money. Of course, I put an address that they are not using anymore but as same as they say, I informed you. As you can understand this is not serious and these SMS and letters will go to Santa and Sinterklaars.
Reputatie 8
Badge +17
After you bought the service, or the value for the service was transferred to you. It's a conversion of money to service.
So there is no money anymore, only service. This service had and "end of live"/"best before"/"overdue" date.

And you choose not to use that service although it was (and is) clearly for everyone that you should use it before that "end of live" date.

You didn't.

That's the game we're playing. By the rules.

Your money has gone. It isn't even your money. Ask Santa or Sinterklaas.

Telfort is not obliged to give you any money, but maybe you're lucky and get some "coulance" (leniency)...

good luck to you. I'm not going in repeat after this...

P.S. and thanx again for the compliments! I'm not a Telfort or KPN employee. Just here for helping other clients of Telfort.
Reputatie 5
Badge +8
Hi JB 50, welcome on this board.

I'm going to keep this short seeing that all the correct information and answers have already been given by Kees-Jan. Like he said: you bought a particular service for a certain fee, in this case € 50.-. It's your responsibility to use this service, as agreed upon in our terms and conditions, within a certain periode of time and activity.

Long story short, you have no grounds for complaint in this case. Therefore there will be no restitution.

@Kees-Jan Thank's for the time and effort you took to answer this in such manner, we appreciate it. 😃
Reputatie 8
Badge +17
Hi JB 50, welcome on this board.

I'm going to keep this short seeing that all the correct information and answers have already been given by Kees-Jan. Like he said: you bought a particular service for a certain fee, in this case € 50.-. It's your responsibility to use this service, as agreed upon in our terms and conditions, within a certain periode of time and activity.

Long story short, you have no grounds for complaint in this case. Therefore there will be no restitution.

@Kees-Jan Thank's for the time and effort you took to answer this in such manner, we appreciate it. :D

Graag gedaan!
Reputatie 8
Badge +19
Enterprice, Let's see if at the end Telfort says something about this.
They always do.
And so they did.
Reputatie 1
Thank you all for your comments!!
Alex, as you said:
"It's your responsibility to use this service, as agreed upon in our terms and conditions, within a certain periode of time and activity."
As agreed:
Who agreed on this? because as I said before, I did not sign anything. Did you get my writing agreement/confirmation? where is this agreement?
Our terms and conditions:
As you well say, YOUR terms and conditions , are these (your terms and conditions) according to the European regulation?

This issue has been addressed already in other EU countries. example below.

Consumers in Action has denounced to the Consumer Authorities the main mobile telephone companies for appropriating the balance of the users with prepaid cards if they do not perform recharges in certain terms.

In addition to canceling the lines, M, V and O keep the amounts prepaid by users who do not reload their cards in seven, ten and thirteen months, respectively.

FA warns that companies must return the amounts paid to users.

I have also contacted the European Commission asking for explanation and advice in this subject. Let's see what they have to say and if customers have the right or not in getting their money back.

An other point to think about:
Three person, A, B and C with prepaid cards and not used for 9 months but the balance for A was 1 Euros, B was 50 Euros and C 100 Euros.
Questions:
1.- Should not they all pay the same penalty value for not using the number in 9 months?
2.- Why the penalty is 1 euros for A, 50 for B and 100 for C?
3.- Is that right?
4.- Different penalties for the same action?
Please, think about it.
Reputatie 8
Badge +11
You agreed by buying the product. You don't have to sign as applies to many agreements. On buying a train-ticket you also have an agreement without signing.
You don't have to reload/recharge your card every amount of time. Using your card by calling, texting of using the internet is also a sign for Telfort that the card is still in use. So any action that affects your calling credit is valid.
There is no penalty/fine. Telfort does not ask you to pay because you did not use te card. The card with the linked callcredit is no longer valid. That's all.

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